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Post by chiiyo on May 9, 2002 7:09:30 GMT -5
I am currently reading the Tale of Murasaki. The descriptions of their clothes amaze me. Has anyone tried wearing an Heian costume yet, especially the women's one? I think it woudl be quite interesting to do so... only I don't know how to make one, or even find one...
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Post by Kou Hiko on May 9, 2002 16:24:21 GMT -5
I actually intend on making myself a juuni-hitoe someday, when I have ALOT of fabric in the right colors. A juuni-hitoe of 20 layers is supposed to weight alot (8 kilograms... I don't know what the poundage is on that...). It shouldn't be too hard to make with good pictures (I'd use a basic kimono-like form with altered sleeves. It wouldn't be traditional, but who cares? It'd be for dress up and class anyways. Here's an idea for Akihito--how about a juuni-hitoe for a male?
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Post by Kiyoaki on May 9, 2002 17:26:01 GMT -5
Sophia & Kou Shonagon,
Liza Dalby's book Kimono has a description of her experience wearing one of these outfits. It also gives you dozens of authentic color combination to wear when putting these ensembles together.
In a reply I made on March 20th under the heading "2nd Gempei War", I listed a website for people who are interested in this style of dress. It offers some practical tips for making such garments.
Of course you probably know, there is an existing men's style that is based upon Chinese prototypes. They have round collars and buttons.
Have fun!
Kiyoaki
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Post by chiiyo on May 11, 2002 12:47:05 GMT -5
Thank you, Kiyoaki-san, for both references. I've forgotten about your post, and I was too lazy to look at Geisha again... Too caught up with Tale of Murasaki I was... I think I shall start on Tale of Genji next.
Am quite intent on recreating a normal Heian outfit, like about five lined layers... which is already super hot in Sunny Singapore I'm afraid. Just wondering what to wear it for... Maybe for cosplay...
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Post by Kiyoaki on May 11, 2002 14:18:51 GMT -5
Lili,
I think you have Geisha confused with Kimono. The latter is more recent and quite different in its' focus. I haven't read the former, so I can't say if there is any reference to Heian fashion in her first book.
Kiyoaki
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Post by chiiyo on May 12, 2002 1:38:32 GMT -5
Sorry, I meant Kimono when I wrote Geisha. I have both of them.
Geisha doesn't have anything on Heian fashion, for your interest. It does deal with kimono in one chapter, as Kimono dealt with geisha in one chapter.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 13, 2002 18:32:40 GMT -5
Dear Lili,
I finally got around to buying and reading a copy of Geisha by Liza Dalby. It helped me better understand the social transition from the Edo Period to modern times for that group of society.
The single portion on kimono was just an inkling of the vaster treatment she offered in Kimono, but both are complimnetary to each other.
Kiyoaki
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Himiko
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Queen and High-Priestess of Yamatai
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Post by Himiko on Jun 20, 2002 0:15:19 GMT -5
I am quite rusty in my Japanese history, but does "haguro" blackening of the teeth and no eyebrows go with the 12 hitoe set-up? What was the motivation behind "haguro", which I think is a pretty strange way to represent courtly beauty. I know that long hair divided at the center is one of the main hairstyles, as I see from pictures of ancient Heian ladies. Also, the males especially in court positions wear some kind of balloon-style pants if I am not wrong. Anyone out there who knows more about those puffy pants?
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Post by chiiyo on Jun 20, 2002 2:52:41 GMT -5
Dear Himiko-chan (chan?? can I use chan??) Hope this link helps. This was actually posted elsewhere in this board, but I'll put it here for better reference. This link has images of almost all the costumes in japan history, but I find the Heian section extremely useful. www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/wayou/index.htmThey don't actually tell you what the "balloon" pants are, but I'm guessing some kind of hakama? I remember reading it somewhere, but I can't really find the reference now. Perhaps Kiyoaki-san can help? About the blackening of the teeth and the "no eyebrows", yes I believe that goes with the juni-hitoe. Although the actual number of hitoe varies throughout the ages, and people don't follow convention all the time. About the eyebrows, it's shave the eyebrows and make fake ones slightly above the original position with some kind of black powder... I'm not very sure about this. The blackening of the teeth, I believe, came from the queen. Something about not brushing their teeth at that time, so everyone had very decayed teeth, so the queen, in order to cover up, blackened her teeth, and the fashion caught on. (I'm not sure on this, just trying to remember what I've read somewhere) Hope this helps!
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 20, 2002 11:02:26 GMT -5
Dear Lili & Himiko,
The eyebrow thing was a convention. It was supposed to reflect the idealized notion of beauty at the time, regardless of gender. You might have noticed, the contemporaneous depictions of both the women and men are identical for this reason. In addition to high eyebrows, plump cheeks, a small mouth, a pale complexion were also considered ideal. The folk figure 'otafuku' is exactly this idealization.
The practice of blackening the teeth with an iron and vinegar solution was not wide spread, but rather confined to the upper levels of Japanese society. The samurai adopted this practice as well, although its' origin and significance seems to have eluded them (especially since they once criticized the court nobility for being efete).
The practice seems to stem from the Japanese idea of what is impolite and unseemly. All things related to bodily functions were taboo. Eating, for example was done in private. Also the baring of teeth was considered an impolite gesture. The prejudice perhaps stems from its' aggressive connotation, as evidenced by other primates (especially baboons, chimpanzees and gorillas). Blackening the teeth helped to forestall any unintentional display of rudeness.
The billowing hakama are another issue. For the Japanese size has always equaled status. One of the reason for the voluminous quality of Heian dress was to impress others with your wealth (all those extra layers of silk) and to create bulk in your appearance. This idea permeates the costuming for No and Kabuki theatre as well.
The very full hakama were actually informal wear for lounging or hunting. Men's formal court wear required much narrower hakama, but even there, status was indicated by the color of their large-sleeved jackets, the the length of one's train, and the cap one wore. All these items were prescribed by edict.
Kiyoaki
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Post by chiiyo on Jun 21, 2002 8:19:50 GMT -5
*blink* The guys move a lot, I believe. Even the women move, but on their knees I think. I think it probably was a lot more convenient to move on your knees with so much clothing. But then, there wasn't much reason for the women to move anyway. I mean, most pictures you see of the Heian period shows women kind of lounging around.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 21, 2002 18:57:40 GMT -5
Himiko,
Heian women spent most of their time indoors. Often they would be secluded in private rooms that only their father and brothers could enter. At times this seclusion was so extreme, that a woman ceased to know what her brother looked like after his coming-of-age ceremony (at 7, I believe - if not then, certainly by puberty).
If a male quest had to be received by any genteel woman, some screens (kicho) would be set up to provide a degree of privacy in one of the public areas and then she would also hide behind her fan as well. Very often, the guest would only be allowed to sit on the veranda, and not actually cross a threshhold.
If she was only going a short distance (perhaps to the other side of her small sleeping quarters) she would most likely crawl or waddle on her knees. Walking was only useful over greater distances and when it could be accomplished under protected circumstances (shielded from the prying eyes of strangers).
The noble women of Heian times, read romance novels, received letters and composed replies, sometimes they took day excursions to suit their whims, sewed clothing for the household, and generally waited for their husbands and lovers to call on them. The two were allowed to co-exist, since monogamy was more often observed in the breach than in reality.
Kiyoaki
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Himiko
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Queen and High-Priestess of Yamatai
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Post by Himiko on Jun 21, 2002 23:37:35 GMT -5
What a life! Having husbands and lovers call on those Heian women! Hence, some of the most lovely and passionate poetry was born during that courtly period. Ono no Komachi, if I am not wrong, was quite a talented lady writer/poet.
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Post by chiiyo on Jun 22, 2002 0:38:53 GMT -5
They were all so poetic then... *sighs wistfully* Imagine, a court lady would to make up at least two poems a day, and they do it willingly. Everyone was so poetically-capable, it kind of makes you wonder whether poetic ability was innate or just part of the enviroment. I mean, there must be no other age when poetry flourished so widely than in the age of Heian Japan.
Sometimes, I wonder whether it would be nice to live in an era like that, you know, with all the romantic sadness that seems to imbue everyone.
That's probably why I want to try and dress up like them. Might be fun.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 24, 2002 10:54:00 GMT -5
Lili,
Your romantic impression of a Heian woman's life is largely dispelled by the diaries of such women. They are often left waiting for their husbands to put in an appearance. In addition, while they might be waiting for their husbands and lovers, their husbands might also be lovers to other women at the same time.
The marriage relationship seems to have been somewhat tenuous. Very often the wife lived with her family, and the husband 'visited' when he chose. If the relationship progressed to the point when the couple might actually setup their own household, it was probably because a male child had been born (and probably because it was the father's first and might be presumed to become his heir.
The wife could simply divorce her husband by moving back to her family's home in that event, or refuse him admittance to her home. Of course the marriage was formally recognized by the husband-to-be visiting and staying overnight three days in a row. After the third visit, the male would send a tray of special sweets to indicate his intent to wed, and by the woman accepting them, the agreement was privately recognized within the family. The parents usually were aware of these visist, but officially did not take notice, should the whole process not be completed.
At times, men could have multiple wives. As long as he could keep them all interested, there was no official limit to the number. Obviously, this took much time and energy on the part of the husband and jealousy was the prevalent characteristic the wives experienced.
Kiyoaki
P.S. The Kagero Nikki will give you a true picture of a Heian woman's life.
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Himiko
New Member
Queen and High-Priestess of Yamatai
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Post by Himiko on Jun 24, 2002 11:51:15 GMT -5
Hmmm...I think it was CyberHippy who commented on the "romantic sadness". What I was trying to say was, I meant the the ladies, of course, while coming to terms with the very real situation of fleeting lovers and philandering/polygamous husbands obviously went through certain emotions, tumultuous enough to produce poetry, full of the transience and "mono no aware" with an acute, sparse, luminous feel. I don't think the apparent courtly lifestyle was that romantic in real life, having to deal with jealousy and rivalry, and all the other intrique, but just that with all those trysts with those lovers/affairs etc was probably feeding into the makings of lady poets. Surely having all these lovers prompted some of the titillating artistry and craftsmanship in the writing, besides additional physical gratification. It's no wonder, then, that the women didn't turn to their husbands for their emotional needs. Even the poetry which the women made were intended for their lover(s) with such passionate intensity. The more illicit the union was, the more satisfying, and more emotional intensity worked into the poem, camouflaged by delicate subtlely. This Japanese ambivalence of attitudes towards the co-existence of husbands and lovers, outside appearances and inner thoughts is nothing new, seems to be the main theme running through most historical periods. Hmmm, Kagero Nikki seems to be like a journal/diary, an introspective examination of the life and times from a feminine perspective, rather than a social commentary on Heian life. Reflecting on what Kiyoaki had said, this would be excellent reading material to know more about the inner intrique and rivalry, court protocol etc... The Kokinshu would be something to read, personally speaking, to get to know more about the literary artistry behind the Heian age.
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Post by chiiyo on Jun 26, 2002 10:52:16 GMT -5
Oh dear...
Actually, when I mentioned about how I wanted to be Heian, I was referring purely to their poetic ability, and since their poetic ability came mostly because of the enviroment they live in, I went on to say that they must live in very nice lives.
As a poet myself, I think it's almost to the point of amazing to be able to compose so many inspired poems in one life. That's why I wish to be transported back to that era, because obviously it is precisely the jealousy, intrigue and plot that caused some of the poems of those age to develop in that way. Of course, love has always been a constant theme in the poems. But I believe one cannot simply write so deeply about love if one did not feel the pain of one's husband's fidelity, and gain the love of another, a lover perhaps. It is precisely the "bad" and unromantic conditions you have described that have led the Heian people to be precisely so poetic.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 26, 2002 14:37:30 GMT -5
Lili,
Actually, most people labored over their replies. So often, the point of the message was to demonstrate one's familairity with the best known anthologies of poetry [ Manyoshu and Kokinshu] by quoting an appropriate image, or re-stating the orignal one, but with an inflection to convey both your intent and simulataneously to obscure it as well [for fear of being too direct]. If this seems like a poor method of communication, it definitely was.
More often than not, the woman addressed is afraid to reveal her ignorance or make a poor showing, so the letter may go unanswered, or it may be answered by an attendant, who is presumed to be more clever. Even the calligraphy might be brushed by some other person. As in real life, talented poets were very few in number. Perhaps one per generation could write something worthy of an Imperial anthology.
In the Western tradition, it would be like quoting Wordworth, or Keats (to name only two) all the time, instead of actually composing your original verse. Cliche's and hackneyed image would have been the norm. Originality would have upset Heian society, because the courtiers would have no immediate context, within which to judge an original effort.
Kiyaoki
P.S. Despite the quoting of memorable poems from letters, eventually one may find them tedious with some oft-repeated images [i.e. wetting one's sleeves with tears]. Depending upon which version of Genji Monogatari you are reading, this feature can be down played or captured in all its' variability. The Arthur Waley version gives you every last one __ the good, the bad, the indifferent. Seidensticker's is more circumspect. I know there is another version in publication, but I haven't read that one yet, so I can't offer an opinion on it.
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Post by Misti on Aug 1, 2002 12:16:50 GMT -5
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Post by chiiyo on Aug 3, 2002 9:18:50 GMT -5
Another twist on my quest to find out how to make Heian Clothing: I got my friend hooked onto cosplay, and now she wants to make Sai's costume. Sai is from the manga series Hikaru no Go, and wears male Heian clothing. We've managed to figure out the basic construction from pictures, including the open sleeves, the threaded ribbons, even the hat, but we still don't know how to go about making the poofy hakama... *sigh* I believe someone has raised the question before...
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