control education, control the population

[akihito89]

If I was to gain control of the education system in Japan, I could require kimono wearing and make traditional arts and practices a mandatory part of education.  This would be a requirement for graduation of High School or College or BOTH.  

This'd get PPL used to wearing kimonos and taking part in other traditions that R dying.

What do you say huh?

[chiiyo]

I don't think that's a bad idea at all! It's quite feasible. You could name it National Education. *giggle* Sorry, Singapore has this subject too... Anyway, it's quite a good idea, only I could tell you how it won't be very well recieved: if it doesn't count for marks to get into an university, few people would like to take up even more of their time with it.

But the idea itself is pretty good, and even if they don't might not willingly spend time on it, they are still forced to do so, right?

*glad to see you're back! where have you been?*

[akihito89]

There are PPL whio won't like this, but there's opposition to everything.  Once most of the population is convinced that traditions and kimonos are as necessary as the three R's (and they R), we'll be on the road to recovery.  In the education system, they always put a heavier load on students and no-one asks them if they felt it was needed.  

This program has a goal.  Once every one is used to practicing dying draditions they'll be alive.  When PPL are used to wearing kimonos, it'll be foreign to them wear anything else.  This will get passed down to the next generation and the education system will still be putting an emphasis on tradition and kimono wearing.

This should do the trick.

[chiiyo]

That might work, but with everything you learn in school, if you don't practise it often, you just don't get it. Many of the scholars from China know perfect English. In theory I mean. Their essays are impeccable, but they can't speak it fluently, because they just don't use it in normal life. Maybe there ought to be an emphasis on traditional rooms, with tatami? Expound on the health properties of kneeling? (are there any?) Unless you get people to start living in a more kimono-friendly enviroment, the knowledge of kimono would only remain on the papers, not on the people's backs.

[akihito89]

In my schools, noone would show up not wearing a kimono.  They will have to wear them from home to school.  Also like all studies, they'll have to "practice" wearing kimono at home.

I could go as fas as far as to enforce a public dress code.  This means U wouldn't get cought outside of your house without a kimono on.

I do agree, we need to also work on archetecture.  If I had absolute power, I'd rebuild japan tonight!!!!!

[Tricia]

I can understand wanting to preserve the beautiful art of wearing kimono.  However, as in all out-moded forms of dress, practicality and current trends have to take a place above a type of dress that is not easy to use in today's world.  

Also, might I point out how much more difficult it is for the women to wear their kimonos as opposed to the men's kimono/hakama ensemble?  

You propose a system where women are subjugated to a form of dress similar to a muslim burka (ever hear of the Taliban?).  I am assuming you are not serious and only whimsical in your approach to the Kimono.  This would be equated to the romanticized depiction of Victorian dress in some circles.

In all, antiquated forms of costume, while quaint and beautiful, are out of every-day fashion for a very practical reason.

Sincerely,
Tricia

[Kiyoaki]

Tricia,

People dress the way they do for all sorts of reasons. The foremost being __ they are following a tradition, which reinforces their identity. Forms of dress develop and evolve over time to suit climate, modes of living, and in response to social needs. To say that some form of dress is 'impractical' is to ignore these other influences.

If by 'practical', you mean comfortable, which 'comfort' are you espousing? There are both physical as well as psychological elements bound up in that notion. I don't think anyone ever totally disassociates the one from the other when they chose a form of dress to match a given occasion.

In the West for instance, on a warm sunny day at the ocean, how many people will be completely without clothes? There is presumably no physical need for clothing, but everyone is clad to some degree [or is likely to get arrested]. Obviously, other 'non-practical' reasons are at work here. Even on a 'clothing-optional beach, the choice is dictated more by one's psychology than by practicality.

At a wedding, why does everyone dress so formally? A bathing suit might be more comfortable, but the bathing 'beauty' [he/she] will probably forsake comfort because their dress would make everyone else psychologically uncomfortable. The wedding guests wear their suits, ties, gowns, heels, etc. not for comfort's sake, but to affirm their traditions, and to lend solemnity to the occasion by dressing in their finest. Even the bride is hobbled by a gown, and suffers the humiliation of being 'given' away as if she were chattel. Yet, many women do not question, but rather affirm such traditions.

As for 'haute coture', that is more about social status than anything else. Yes, some fashion designers keep comfort in mind when they turn out a new line of clothes. Others, go to the opposite extreme. The client picks and chooses according to their own values. Practicality doesn't always win out [and maybe it shouldn't]. Haute coture is also about 'conspicuous consumption', fantasy, allure, mystery. Practicality is usually much further down the list of desirable features.

Everything you find objectionable about Japanese dress for women has parallels in European/Western fashion. One need only ask, "Why do women still wear high heel shoes?" In this day and age, women seem to be supporting traditions that are inimical to their physical well-being. This is merely one instance where practicality in dress is ignored for some other value.

People, whatever their traditions, make choices about their dress to suit their individual selves, but always within the context of that society's mores. Unless we understand those mores, we are not fit to judge who is being oppressed by those traditions.

Kiyoaki

P.S. Wearing hakama may look like a 'piece of cake' to you, but from my experience, it is requires as much effort and finesse as a woman tying her obi. Also, trying to seat yourself in such a way that the back of the hakama doesn't look like an acordion when you stand again, is not easily mastered either.

[Kiyoaki]

Cris,

I have to disagree with your comments about the origin of the kimono and the Japanese language.

Yes, the idea for the 'kosode' was taken from Sui-Tang dynasty models. However, that was 1300 years ago and the kimono has significantly diverged from its' Chinese prototype since then. Even today, what most people consider Chinese dress, is in fact Manchu in origin and totally foreign in concept to the kimono or Han Chinese clothing styles. After 1300 years, I think the Japanese can rightly claim that they have a unique tradition of the kimono.

Secondly, Japanese as a spoken language, is in a family of its' own. There is no identifiable form of proto-Japanese that can be linked to another family of languages, so it stands alone. It was never "borrowed" from Chinese. In any event, "Chinese" itself is not one single language, but several spoken forms that are mutually unintelligible. Universal Chinese only exists as a written form.

If by Japanese, you mean the written language, then I would say it was not "borrowed" from Chinese either. Yes it is currently written with Chinese ideograms (although largely modified in their form), but to those Chinese verbs and nouns are added purely Japanese prepositions, conjunctions, and adverbs. The necessities of Japanese grammar demanded it.

A very rough parallel would be our use of Latin nouns and verbs in spoken English, plus German prepositions and French adverbs added to that mix, and written with Roman letters (plus "J", "K",W", "Y" which had to be invented). In the light of such a mixed heritage, would you also contend that English was borrowed from Latin?

In addition, there are two forms of written Japanese that is totally unintelligible to the Chinese (hiragana and katakana). Japanese can often read Chinese and gain a gist of what's written, but Chinese are at a loss to read Japanese because they lack knowledge of the grammar. Unfortuantely, hiragana can also be vague to the Japanese as well (sometimes intentionally so).

Kiyoaki

[Tricia]

Wow, what a huge tempest in 'teacup' (lol).  My only thoughts on all this is that maybe I simply have a problem with the whole angle of this board.  Since 9/11, many Americans like me have become extremely sensitive to the idea of 'controlling the population'.  We have fresh wounds from a group that thrived in a population that was 'controlled'.

I would just like to say that although I believe the originator of this particular subject is probably not an extremist in person (as your earlier humorous posts inducate), I felt that the 'control' part of the subject was getting a bit out of hand.

Perhaps some more realistic ideas on advancing kimono use and preservation might be more productive.  I don't know where the swim suits and wedding gowns came from, but you seem to have a grasp of the complications kimonos would have on modern everyday life.  

You even admit that the hakama is difficult to wear (which I didn't know.  I only know it takes me almost an hour to get my daughter's obi tied!).  You also mention that the pleats are difficult to keep neat.

All this simply points to the fact that Kimonos, like swimsuits and wedding gowns, might have their place for special occasions.  However, as a mode of everyday wear, our lifestyles have changed so drastically as to make the kimono a time and monetary investment most cannot afford.

How about espousing more tea ceremonies, so that people would want to wear kimono, and own them?  That would be very practical.

Any other practical ideas?

Sincerely,

Tricia

[Kiyoaki]

Tricia,

I sensed the recent Memorial Day observance was prominent in your thoughts when you wrote your reply.

My remarks were intended to bring that perspective closer to home. Most people are quick to see oppression in other societies, but ignore the very same  things right in front of them. Every society relies on formal and informal controls to order and perpetuate itself.  The differences between "us" and "them" lie only in the degrees and methods. Eight months after __  we aren't we subject to more controls than ever before? Does safety concerns everythign else? Aren't we in danger of becoming the 'enemy' by permitting more restrictions on our liberties?

Before categorizing 'burkas' as oppressive for women, you should know that some Arab women prefer to wear them to avoid being harassed by the males in public for being unchaperoned. I'm not disagreeing with your point.  Instead, I'm trying to see beyond outward appearances in order to identify the root causes. The 'oppression' lies in lack of choice for women in a male-dominated society, not in how those choices are expressed.

As to whether the 'kimono' is 'out-moded' or oppressive to women, I think the jury is still out on that one. Japanese women have enjoyed varying degrees of emancipation throughout their history. Despite superficial appearances of male domination, Japanese women have traditionally maintained control of the family by managing its' finances. We, as non-native Japanese, are unsuited to judge that issue. The final verdict will arise (as such decisions have always arrived), from the individual choices of 200,000,000+ Japanese themselves.

Kiyoaki

[akihito89]

In EVERY society there are controls.  Some are more subtle than others.  Police inforcing laws is an obvious contro,l mechanism.  Others like education and the media are less obvious controls.  The above controls are in all societies.  If it would be "oppressive" to make a public dress code that's strictly traditional Japanese, you could go as far as to say it's tyranny to make us wear clothes at all.

Kimonos are an identity with Japaneseness.  If the Japanese throw their Identity, the insides will soon fall out.  2,600 years of rich history will be wasted.

I don't care what the means are but the end must be met!  I have almost never agreed with "the end justifies the means", but here I almost do.

[chiiyo]

Well, Tricia, you will soon realise that telling akihito-san not to "control" is rather hard... I would go as far as to say that his whole purpose in life is to get people to wear kimonos, and using control has been one of his most mentioned manner. And this has been one of his more mild methods no less.. *smile* And personally, the idea of introducing national education has been one of his more practical ones, though the enforcing is a bit hard. Perhaps akihito-san should look into making kimono the "uniform" of the school? Japanese schoolkids are already used to the fact that they have to wear uniforms, and making kimono the uniform would allow them to be used to it, and wear it to school and back home again, which takes up a substantial amount of time. This way you are not exactly controlling the people, not unless asking people to wear school uniforms is repressive... Personally, I love all my school uniforms after a while.

After a while then you could advocate how good kimonos are ,citing the school as an example. If other people or organisations adopt kimono as their uniforms, at their own free will of course, then your movement would be forwarded, no?

[akihito89]

How do I get into the Japanese education machine?

[Kiyoaki]

Akihito,

That's a very general question. If you're not Japanese born and raised, then there's almost no chance to affect their system from the outside. Even if you were to try to advance within the of education hierarchy, it would take you a lifetime to arrive at a point where you could begin to make changes.

Your best bet, is to become a pop star, and then influence the new generation to appreciate their parent's traditions. After all, changing the establishment by following their rules, will only make you part of what you are trying to change.

At one time, the oiran, kabuki actors, and sumo wrestlers were the big pop stars of Edo culture. The oiran were later replaced by the geisha. Although today the wrestlers, geisha, and actors still have their followings, movie stars and (soft) rock bands have been added to the lineup.

Pick your medium and rise to the top. Then you can influence the audience you want to reach. Control, though, will always remain an illusive thing.

Kiyoaki

[Flock]

sounds good.. but if kimono lessons became compulsory then they'd also become unfashionable to a certain degree..
A lot of young people are picking up kimono on their own and making it a fresh and chic change from yofuku.. and if kimono was compulsory people would learn it the stiff and formal way, rather than discovering it on their own and having fun..
What do you think?