Types of Kimono

[Reiko]

What are the differences between a regular kimono and a geiko (or maiko) kimono?

Just a question.

[Kiyoaki]

Reiko,

A maiko would wear a furisode over a juban with red printed collar. Her obi would be extremely long to allow for the trailing ends.

A full geisha (geiko) would wear anything that was suitable to her age and taste __ except a furisode (though she might otherwise still be of that age).

Kiyoaki

[bawsin]

Kiyoaki san, I have a related question.

What exactly is the difference between a houmongi and a tsukesage?

I thought it had something to do with the pattern running across the seam (eba?), but I've seen items I thought were "clearly" houmongi that were labelled tsukesage, and vice versa. So now I'm completely puzzled.

(Incidentally, if you could include hyperlinks to a couple of examples of houmongi and tsukesage that illustrate the differences, that would be extremely helpful too!)

Thanks!

bawsin,
the proud owner of 3 houmongi ... or 2 houmongi and 1 tsukesage ... or 1 houmongi and 2 tsukesage ... or possibly just 3 tsukesage...

[Kiyoaki]

baswin,

Tsukesage refers to a type of design composition used on kimono. Usually this means the motifs are spread across the upper right shoulder and trail along the hem. Rarely does it run continuously from shoulder to hem, because of the fold at the waist, which the obi covers.

'Homongi' means something for visiting (hence a semi-formal) kimono. It doesn't always have to have crests to be considered semi-formal, though. Perhaps is should be described as 'dressy' instead. Such a kimono could also be decorated in the 'tsukesage' style __ and hence the confusion in descriptions. Perhaps the great majority of women's kimono are styled that way, but there are otherways as well.

As a further example, 'ryozuma' designates a kimono (in the Taisho Era, usually formal) that has the decoration running along the front lapels (but only below the obi), and usually in mirror-image fashion.

Finally, 'komon' is used to describe one style which has design elements evenly spread over the kimono surface. The motifs were once almost microscopic(hence 'ko-mon', as in 'small motif'), but need not be limited to that tradition today. Once, that style was typical for formal wear (both men and women), but not it's fallen out of fashion and now considered appropriate for casual wear.

In effect, homongi and tsukesage refer to totally different aspects, so they can co-exist in one kimono.

Kiyoaki

P.S. I looked at the first several screens at the Ichiroya website for examples of each kind I described above. Rather than setting up links, I've recorded their inventory numbers for your reference. See below for details.

Under the 'Kimono' division, see:

Komon - #'s 67048, 67052, 66991
Ryoma 67055, 66989
Tsukesage 66998, 66642, 66710, 66648

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask for more clarification.

[bawsin]

'Homongi' means something for visiting (hence a semi-formal) kimono. It doesn't always have to have crests to be considered semi-formal, though. Perhaps it should be described as 'dressy' instead. Such a kimono could also be decorated in the 'tsukesage' style __ and hence the confusion in descriptions. Perhaps the great majority of women's kimono are styled that way, but there are otherways as well.

Ah, this is helpful. Thank you very much. I do have a couple more questions, though!

If I understand correctly, a houmongi is considered to be more formal or "dressy" than a tsukesage.

So, what would it take to elevate a "mere" tsukesage to a houmongi? Essentially - what makes a houmongi even dressier? Assuming it doesn't have a crest, that is... would it be the fabric (e.g. rinzu), the design technique (e.g. yuzen), the area of the design (e.g. tsukesage-style rather than all over)? Or some combination of these?

bawsin

[bawsin]

Sorry Kiyoaki,

I read your posting a little more closely and realized that when you mentioned the komon and the ryoma tomesode, you are in fact giving two examples (I think) of the houmongi "class".

I do have to say, though, I'm still mystified by how one distinguishes between a tsukesage and a (tsukesage-style) houmongi, which is somehow deigned dressier than a "mere" tsukesage. To me, the two designations always look alike. (Of course, it's also possible that people are using these designations fairly loosely, too!)

[Ume]

There is a lot more to be said about geisha kimono.
I hope this is not a Kiyoaki only answering tread, if so please forgive me for answering too.

First of all, if you are interested in kimono and geisha I would go and by Mrs. Liza Dalbyfs book; fashioning kimono.

Yes maiko will wear furisode, but not only that. A furisode, also for maiko, is always formal wear. So a maiko would wear furisode to formal and festive occasions. They would not be gnormalh furisode, but different from furisode worn to (as an example) Seijinshiki (Coming-of-Age Ceremony). Furisode for maiko are considerably longer then furisode, they are called susohiki or hikizuri furisode; they are at least as long as a wedding furisode, some where between 175cm. to 210cm.
The length is not the only difference though; maiko kimono always have tucks at the shoulders (like childrenfs kimono) to give the impression a maiko is still a child (in the old days a maiko would indeed have been more a child then a young women, like 12/14 years old) In the case of furisode there would be a tuck half way the sleeves too.
Because the furisode is formal a maiko would like geisha wear any kimono she likes, when not in a formal situation. She will wear casual komon etc. for running errands, going to the hairdresser and things like that. Wearing a furisode for these kinds of occasions would be way too formal. There is however a difference with normal kimono and geisha kimono, a maiko casual kimono and yukata will always have the tucks at the shoulder.
The collar of the nagajuban will not be printed but embroidered. The collar is red, the embroidery will be multi colored, for formal wear white/silver embroidery is used, the golderh the maiko the more embroidered white will be on the red collar.

As for geisha, she will wear any kimono she likes, that is true. How ever, when she goes to a formal party where she is asked to dance she will wear a susohiki, like maiko, but with short sleeves. Everything is possible, kuro tomesode susohiki, houmongi susohiki, iro muji susohiki, I have even seen komon susohiki, but these are rare and kind of contradictive because komon pattern is informal and susohiki are formal.
Tomesode susohiki she will wear to formal ceremonies and parties, houmongi susohiki to festive partiesc etc. just like normal kimono, the rules are about the same.
(Susohiki means something like trail the skirt, the kimono is very long and will not be tucked at the waist so the skirt is left trailing)

About houmongi and tsugesage; I must say I have problems with them too, but K gave a good answer. There is one more way to tell the difference.
Houmongi will have the patterns on both sleeves and shoulders, running continuously over the seems. This is a very good example of houmongi: www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=66998 www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=66177 www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=65125 www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=63850
You see the pattern not being broken by the seems, or cut of? There are of course many. Many more at Ichiroyafs but I thought these where very clear.
Tsugesage usually has only one side of the sleeve patterned; the front left sleeve will have a pattern and the front left shoulder, but the pattern usually doesnft cross the seem, and the right back sleeve will have a pattern. www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=60307 this kimono is listed as houmongi, but I think it classifies more as tsugesage because of how the pattern is at the sleeves, it doesnft go over the sleeve and shoulder. This one is an even better example: www.ichiroya.com/item/list2.php?number=60308 here is an other one: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29452&item=3931700975&rd=1
The confusing thing is that tsugesage comes in an allover pattern too, tsugesage komon, I could not find any pictures of this type at Ichiroyafs but look at this very informative site and see one: kimono.fraise.net/gallery/komon-kiku.html

Many greetings Ume, hoping I did not babble to much.

[bawsin]

Hello Ume,

Thank you for your kind and detailed reply... it is most helpful. The illustrations made the distinctions more clear also!

Now I can say for certain that one of my kimono is a houmongi while another is a tsukesage.

The third mystery kimono, though... the seller billed it as a "houmongi," but I'm still not quite sure what it is. It's a red-and-white all-shibori kimono (early Showa) whose pattern is karakusa/botan (arabesque with peony). It's beautiful, however the pattern is very large and covers the entire body of the kimono. So I'm not really sure why it would be considered a houmongi... maybe it's simply a large-pattern komon? (Which sounds like a contradiction in terms!)

Thanks,

bawsin

[Ume]

Hey,
could you maybe show a picture?
That would help. It could be a large pattern komon, it sounds like it. Maybe it is very dressy and very nice for visiting wear and thus the seller called it a houmongi?

[Reiko]

Thank you all for your helpful comments.

[Kiyoaki]

baswin,

On the confusion about when to use tsukesage versus homongi, I think the use of either term to describe a kimono is more a subjective one than a technical difference. I would guess a seller might say 'homongi' when they wanted to indicate that something was suitable for visiting (albeit informal), and 'tsukesage', more often for less dressy wear.

On the question of what makes a kimono more dressy __ Liza Dalby says there is a hierarchy of fabrics and that some can only be considered informal. In addition, certain decorative techniques may be essential for formal wear.

For instance rinzu is more dressy that chirimen. Habutae is perhaps more formal than every other fabric. Fabrics other than silk, cannot be considered formal (no matter how elaborately decorated).

Shibori can only be considered casual, while yuzen decoration (if the kimono isn't a solid color), is a must for anything formal (whether it be done on rinzu, or crepe, or satin).

I suppose this topic is really convoluted for many people, and it probably doesn't make much difference unless we expect to wear kimono _ IN _ Japan upon a formal occassion. So I've only tried to cover a few basic
'rules', without trying to be definitve.

Of course, there will always be cases where the lines will be blurred, which keeps everyone wondering what to call something or wether it's apropos to wear at a give gathering.

I hope I've at least shed some light on you question.

Kiyoaki

[bawsin]

Kiyoaki,

You have shed a great deal of light on my question in your replies here! Thank you.

> I suppose this topic is really convoluted for many
> people, and it probably doesn't make much difference
> unless we expect to wear kimono _ IN _ Japan upon
> a formal occassion.

I've just started to study Chado ("tea ceremony"), so one of these days I'll need to wear kimono for a group occasion or tea demonstration. That's one reason I was curious about understanding the distinction.

In fact, at the tea demonstration I attended in August, women were wearing kimono across the board, in terms of formality. The host was wearing what looked like habutae (and now I know why! "Habutae is perhaps more formal than every other fabric"), and the other women were in almost everything else: komon, hitoe kimono, tsukesage, iromuji, even one in kurotomesode.

I appreciate your detailed reply about formality in decoration and fabric. Really, anything that helps me understand kimono better is most welcome, even if I'll never be an expert! Thank you so much.

bawsin

[Kiyoaki]

bawsin,

If you haven't already, you should get Liza Dalby's book Kimono: Fashioning Culture. It will survey how the kimono was transformed from being the principal form of clothing to becomming a social statement __ fraught with soo many pitfalls __ which gave birth to schools that teach people how and what to wear and when to wear it.

A section of her book is devoted to detailing all the levels of distinction possible and how to inject personal style into selecting and wearing it.

Happy reading
Kiyoaki