The kimonos represents...

[akihito89]

The kimonos is 2,000 years of rich history woven into a wearable work of art.  It is an identification with that heratage.  It is also a statement, the wearer is identifying hem or herself with not only a PPL or heratage, but a value system.  

Today, we (universal people) betray what we are if it's convenient.  You see it every where you look.  Every time you turn on the TV or radio thes cultural complacence comes at full throttle in your face.

The way cars are built is an example.  Front wheel drive is widely used not because it's better, but because it's cheaper.  The same goes for plastic bumpers instead of steel.  

We live in the dark ages .  Our technoligy is more advanced than ever before, but we are killing our cultural identity and our traditional values.  This is why in recent times kids kill each other and schools are war zones.  This is what produces the purest of evil and destruction.

[Kiyoaki]

Akihito,

I can agree with your reverence for the two-millenia-long tradition of the kimono. However, I might say 'pragmatic', where you say convenient. After all, the evolution of the kosode was in part a response to the inconvenience of the 'osode', but was largely prompted by a desire to establish the status of the 'bushi' through its' own style of dress.

I also wouldn't look to popular culture to either reflect or support traditional Japanese values. Its' foremost purpose is to entertain, so anything that requires a long and involved setup before the payoff for the audience comes, is highly unlikely to occur. Of course some entertainments like 'kabuki' once were considered frivolous entertainment as well. Once they matured, they became a means to instill Confucian values throughout the urban class, which included both the bushi and the 'chonin'.

Rather than 'killing' their identity, many of the elements of chonin culture were added to the larger traditions of Japan. What the Shogun's government once railed at for being a corrupting influence on public morality, became the paradigm for contemporary culture in the Japan of today.

Today's frivolity can become tomorrow's tradition.

Kiyoaki

[Kiyoaki]

Zaphod,

I don't want this to turn into a political debate about the ills of modern societies, but I don't feel all the failures of today can be blamed on just a few people. If blame needs to be ascribed at all ( I don't believe that concept applies to human relations) then "everyone" should acccept some. That appraisal translates into "each of us never knows how our actions adversely influence others (and for many __ perhaps they just don't care)".

In the case of Dr. Spock I don't know the particulars surrounding his child' death, but unless there was a suicide note that implicitly blames the father, I think your conclusion assumes a relationship that hasn't been proven. After all, the children of prominent people often have difficult childhoods by virtue of how their peers and the larger society treat them, as opposed to the personal relationship they have with the parent.

In the second instance, it's more reasonable to make a case for Madeline Murray O'Hare as the victim. If you are infering that she got what she deserved, then you are endorsing the view that a God-fearing teenager was justified in committing rape and murder in defense of his religion (whichever one it was).

If I need to choose between the alternatives, I'd worry about the latter instead of whether kids could say a prayer in school. Besides, one of the basic tenents of the U.S. Constitution is that no law should abridge religious freedom. The corollary of that principle is that is shouldn't prefer religion either (especially when there are so many that are in conflict with each other).

I'm stepping down from my soapbox now. I don't know if it's ever useful to discuss politics or religion. Each of us had different influences at work on us, so we are more likely to disagree than resolve our differences.

Kiyoaki

[chiiyo]

*blink* I think I'm just blur right now because I don't really understand where this conversation is going to... I kind of expected a discussion about what the kimono represents throughout history or throughout your life... not really this...

[chiiyo]

It's okay to rant once in a while. We understand.

Well, to me, kimono represents japanese culture. I want to make a distinction here between modern japanese culture and old japanese culture. In Singapore, people who go crazy about J-rock, J-pop, and japanese drama serials (and therefore learn japanese) are called Ha Ri, which translates to Craze about Japan. That, together with anime and manga fans, are what I define as modern japanese culture. Since I belong to the anime and manga fans group (OTAKU!) I guess I also like modern japanese culture. But what fascinates me is really the history of japan, especially the Heian, the Bakumatsu, the Edo periods, and traditional arts like odori, geikos and maikos, ikebana, cha-no-yu and the like. That also encompasses my love for the japanese language, and of course, kimono.

Throughout history, kimono has played an important part. Like music, kimono has been a mirror of the opinions of the court, the nobility, the samurai, the merchants, the peasants. Yet, also, like music, it has not been a passive mirror, but one that creates change to the social order. Kimono is a social order marker, a history period marker, a source of inspiration, begging to be flaunted, to be interpreted. It is, as said in many other sources, the most identifiable national costume in the world.

[chiiyo]

Talking about martial arts, I'm quite taken with learning kempo, but my japanese friend insists that I"m not the right kind of person, since kempo is so violent... According to him, I have a very flustered soul... and that aikido would be better for me... *blink*

Well, back to the topic, I once read in a book (actually it was a manga) that wearing a kimono makes a person feel different. That is one of the reasons I wish to wear kimono. I'm a very "genki" person, especially with my friends, but I've always prefered to be more silent and mysterious than talkative. Perhaps I may become more refined after wearing kimono?

I think that's what kimono represents to me... an aesthetic ideal.

[Kiyoaki]

Lili,

If you'll permit the digression __ I can suggest one further level of consideration regarding a martial art, namely 'judo'. It has a tai-chi style of movement and doesn't stress agressive attacking. In fact, the idea is to divert the force of the attack, not through direct opposition but by redirection.

As for wearing the kimono __ your movements tend to become restrained (unless you enjoy dying your sleeves in food sauces) and even your walking is altered (since you must take smaller steps). If one is mindfull of all the ways your clothing can become entangled or soiled, that alone changes one's mannerisms.

In the end, I'm not certain how to respond to idea of kimono representing something else. Afterall does a T-shirt and/or blue jeans 'represent' anything? Aren't they both pieces of clothing that have been turned into cultural icons by non-Americans? They may have become representative of American culture to foreigners, but to Americans, they are mostly comfortable forms of clothing.

That doesn't mean Americans don't make statements about themselves when they wear a particular T-shirt or a particular pair of jeans, but beyond a statement of class, wealth, or personal style a T-shirt is a t-shirt, is a t-shirt (ala Gertrude Stein).

Kiyoaki

[Himiko]

Maybe time factor, in this busy world. No one would trade in 30 mins or more trying to put on a kimono, with the simple convenience of T shirt and jeans.
Besides kimono being more expensive etc...

[chiiyo]

*blink* You take 10 minutes?? I've never actually worn one myself, but I've heard that it takes a rather long time sometimes... maybe it's just for the girls...

I have thought about judo, and it's rather appealing, but I think I'll stick to aikido. I think if Singapore had any kyudo lessons I would take that up instead.