Hiroeri (wide lapel) questions

[fraise]

Konnichiwa (or "konbanwa"!) minna-san,

For a long time now I've wondered why many kimonos have such wide lapels and sometimes snaps on the inside center back, when the info I've read about kimono lapels says that average width is 2.5 inches (about 6.4cm), and no word about snaps. Since I couldn't afford a finished kimono until recently (just kurotomesode fabric before), I had no idea why some lapels looked so wide.

Then on the Ichiroya site I noticed furisode #6091 with the note that "The lapel is hiroeri (wide lapel) and it can be worn at formal occasion." My first question is, when is the narrower, sewn-down lapel used, and what is it called in Japanese? Is it only used on yukata and other hitoe kimono? This seems to be what I've noticed. Also, it might be a silly question, but why is the hiroeri lined and left unfolded rather than sewn down? Is it to keep it from wearing on the fold, or perhaps to make cleaning easier?

Now that I've got a beautiful summery-golden komon with this same kind of wide lapel, I can see that the snaps are used to keep the lapel well-folded at the center back. I would also like to know, is some of the lower lapel left unfolded, if it's not visible? This seems to be the case from the site Kimono FAQ (the part How to wear Kimono), but it's hard to see well.

Thanks in advance, and of course many thanks to the Wadas who always have such beautiful garments!

[Kiyoaki]

Dear Fraise,

As far as I'm aware, the regular (narrow) version is simply called 'eri'. The word is better translated as 'collar', rather than 'lapel'. Admittedly, the length is much greater than what Westerners are used to seeing and it does attach to the overlapping panels that effectively become lapels, but on the juban those panels are missing, yet the eri remains in tact.

I've only seen this type of collar on women's kimono. I assume it's done to create a rounded edge to the eri and perhaps to prevent premature wear as well. The snap at the nape of the eri I take as proof that collar should be folded along it length when worn. Perhaps the additional layer of material that lines the inner face of the collar also adds more crispness to the neckline of the kimono as a whole.

Those are my guesses/theories anyway. I think this is a post-Meiji feature for women's kimono.

Kiyoaki

[Kiyoaki]

John,

They don't actually keep the collar folded. The obi does that. The threads, which I assume are like basting stitches, keep the layers of material together so when the collar is folded in half, they won't shift and create unwanted lines or creases. This is somewhat of a guess on my part, but I can't conceive of any other reason for their prescence and the spacing between them.

Kiyoaki

[fraise]

John,

Don't cut those strings! They serve the same purpose as snaps, in fact. Here's what to do: grab both ends of the string, and pull on them evenly. The top of the collar should then "fold" down to meet the bottom line of stitches. When wearing the kimono, these strings will hold the collar in place and folded - they don't need to be knotted. Then, to unfold, just pull upwards (gently) on the collar's edge (the one that, when unfolded, was the outer edge).

I learned this from the book Make Your Own Japanese Clothes by John Marshall, by the way. At first the book's explanation for this kind of "basted" collar seemed unclear to me, until I got my own kimono with a "hiroeri".

And thanks for the info, Kiyoaki!

[Hamtaro Lover]

Hello! I'm new to this board and are reading though the posts, and this confused me:

In this thread, it seems that "The word is better translated as 'collar', rather than 'lapel'." (eri) but in this post, titled, "Re: Item Carry / Pouches or sleeves? ":

ichiroya.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=1025074599

It seems that lapel's used to describe something similar. Are these different things?

Is there something that shows what the parts are called?

[Kiyoaki]

Hamtaro Lover,

Fraise, who posed the original question, used the word
'lapel' to describe the eri, so I followed suit. Besides, the eri on the kimono also becomes part of the lapels so her terminology wasn't completely off.

Kiyoaki

[MarieNY]

Fraise, if you go to this link you will see that a folded eri is used to attach a haneri on Houmongi:

www.somesho.com/kitsuke/11_Reisou/1104_Houmongi/index.html

So the snap appears to be functional as opposed to allowing a choice of "lapel width". Houmongi is about as formal a kimono one can wear before Tomesode.

I have two Komon with the snap, and they cannot be there for allowing formal wear. As I understand Japanese usage Komon would never be worn for anything more formal than shopping or going to a movie.

[fraise]

Hi Marie My original post was from 2002, so since then I've learned quite a bit!

The eri is indeed meant to be adjustable in width, since it's worn wider in front (as "lapels" ) than at center back. In the same link you gave, you can see that she folds over only about 2cm (one inch) of the eri in front, whereas it's folded in half at center back.

Also, it's not a haneri that she's attached to the houmongi, but a date eri A haneri is put on juban, whereas a date eri gives an impression of another layer, adding some formality. They can be worn on komon as well, as more formal komon (although always informal, there are more and less formal ones) can be worn to theater and such.

[Flock]

Here is my explanation:
When in storage the kimono collar is smoothed out unfolded to keep it all nice, so
certainly all formal kimono will have a big collar unless the previous owner has perhaps stiched it..
less formal kimono worn more regularly sometime have the stiched shut collars (certainly they are more convinient, I find as I am ajusting the length of the kimono the collars can slip around if big), although only one of my komon does.