akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 11, 2002 9:09:04 GMT -5
People should wear kimonos. "Modern" clothing is to Japan like Opium was to China! Fight the machine! Be FREE! Wear kimonos! Play videogames!
I want to know what YOU think. Please reply.
Thanks.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Mar 11, 2002 12:22:37 GMT -5
Good morning Akihito!
I share your feelings about wearing kimono often, but don't know if I'd go so far as calling 'yofuku' "opium". Nevertheless, I understand the sentiment. Not everyone is cut out to wear kimono though. Whether by accident of birth or circumstances we don't get to choose our culture. I was fortunate in having a mixed ancestry, which allowed me to choose from four distinct ones. In the end, I never fixed on any single one, but have tried to encompass them all.
How did you begin to wear it? When, and how often do you dress that way? What's your favorite look?
It's not the most convenient way to dress for everyone , and it does have drawbacks when we talk about cleaning and maintenance. However, I think the comfort issue is the first hurdle to overcome, before someone is capable of adopting kimono as an alternative to Western dress.
Maybe the biggest barrier though, is unfamiliarity and ignorance, although the cost is significant as well. When I first contemplated buying a formal outfit in my 20's [kimono, haori, hakama], I was convinced kimono was more economical than a tuxedo. I told myself, "It would never go out of style, and always fit (even if my waistline did not cooperate). I could even be buried in it or pass it on to my son." Actually, I really knew my biggest reason was the sheer romantic association with my Japanese heritage. What were your issues and how did you sort through them?
Ultimately, my maverick nature needs expression from time to time and dress is the easiest way to achieve it. My Western dress may appear conventional, but I always put a personal 'spin' on it __ like wearing a cashmere sweater with jeans. Later this year, a large reception to celebrate the re-opening of San Francisco's Asian Art Museum is scheduled. That should be the ideal event for wearing Japanese dress.
So I've been considering what I should wear. It will be held in late summer, so my initial choice was a white rinzu juban, brown 'ro' kimono with matching haori (all three unlined, but with 'mon') and narrow striped hakama in tan and green. Yet, that look seemed too staid, __ so formal (and I have worn it a number of times before).
Next came the idea of switching a grey juban for the white one, white rinzu for the brown 'ro', plain black 'sha' for the brown haori, and black hakama with small gold designs for the striped set to dress things up some. I was trying for a semi-formal look. Of course, there is no way to appear informal while wearing hakama. I only added them because I'd feel overly casual without one.
Besides wearing them, I also collect antique men's 'wafuku'. Recently, I added a red (almost scarlet) priest robe to my collection. It's a 'ro' fabric with phoenixes and Chinese flowers done in damask weave. The combination of weaves is difficult to do ('takeyamachi' is the term, I believe), so the fabric isn't used for ordinary clothing.
The sleeves measure over two feet square and extend six inches beyond my finger tips. Their open cuffs are lined with six inches of a similar white 'ro' fabric with a design of wild orchids. The robe has a pleated skirt attached to the jacket and ties at hip level, so no obi is worn over it.
Now I'm considering a white rinzu juban, black 'ro' kimono, and the red robe over it all, but eliminating the hakama. Although the color combination is classic (for both men and women), the red is supposed to only show at the neckline. Obviously, the sleeves of the priest robe demand it be worn outside.
I'm thinking there will be others, who will dress in Asian styles so I won't be alone, and maybe I can catch the eye of the museum's textile curator that way. I might get an informal appraisal out of the 'chance' meeting.
I don't know if your tastes are as eccentric as mine, but in part I've always had this attitude about dress. That desire for unconventional dress (by American standards) was a large part of the appeal that led me to wear kimono from the first. From that limited beginning, my experiences have taken me much further afield.
One last comment, you might want to post your picture file on the Ichiroya web page [the 'photo album']. Your thumbnail shot in the message format can't do you justice, and the compression software has also distorted the image. I'm certain we all would enjoy drawing inspiration from a bigger picture. Eventually, I'll post some of my own (when I get a good digital camera).
Kiyoaki
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 12, 2002 10:08:01 GMT -5
I don't think western clothing is inherently evil (I live in the Sount East US). However, it is arguable that western clothing was pushed on Japan in a similiar manner to the British pushing Opium on China. (I like the British, so I'm not condemning them here.)
An American naval fleet came storming into a Japanese port with guns blazing. Japan was forced at gunpoint to trade at unequal terms with western nations. (I think this is an example of greed in overdrive) Soul-less, greedy merchants fed on Japan parading this foriegn clothing around and it gradually gained popularity. Like opium in China people got hooked. It got so bad that someone would feel self conscious in his or her own native dress.
As for comfort, I can't say too much. I do think it is largely a preception issue. people aren't used to wearing kimonos, so they feel restrictive. When it comes down to the wire, people are slaves to what gets all the spotlights. I've seen extremely uncomfortable, aweful stuff on the shelves, and people wear it. (plastic, knee-high boots)
Before I get carried away, I need to get back to the point. Western clothing isn't evil by itself, but it was shoved down Japan's throat in a similiar manner to the opium trade in China.
I say it's past time to fight the machine! Wear kimonos in Japan! Fight for freedom!
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Post by Kiyoaki on Mar 12, 2002 17:06:42 GMT -5
Akihito,
I would have to disagree with you on the image of "guns blazing" and "treaties signed at gun point". According to all the accounts I've read, the opening of trade with Japan was a relatively bloodless incident. I'm not even certain Perry fired at all (except perhaps to return fire on some local hot heads).
Compared to China, the Japanese had a much easier time of it. No one carved out a 'sphere of influence', or enforced any unequal trade agreements on Japan as the British did to China after the First and Second Opium Wars. Neither did any nation annex land or obtained '99' year leases to territory.
As to forcing the Japanese to adopt Western dress, well Liza Dalby's book Kimono covers this topic in great detail. Her book is listed under the 'Bibliography' heading. It deals extensively with the Meiji and Taisho eras, and details the rise and fall of Western influences on Japanese dress in that period.
I'd describe her as one of the few Americans, who can speak from direct experience after living and working in Japan as a 'geisha'. More than anyone else, she advocates the definition of 'wakufu' not be limited to kosode, but include folk garments like 'hanten' so those traditions are preserved as well. In addition she argues that the contemporary idea of the kimono is really a very narrow one developed by the urban middle class Japanese as the only proper way to preserve the tradition. They are the ones are responsible for making the kimono an eliteist tradition.
In large part, Japanese adopted Western dress because it was cheaper than their own. [It still is.] In the office environment, it is still more practical than kimono. Only in the traditional setting of a 'tatami' floor, does the kimono work best. In their desire to be 'up-to-date', the modern Japanese abandoned the kimono. No one forced them to do it either.
Even today, when they can better afford to dress in kimono, the traditions still seems to be dying. It's easy to blame outside influences for this trend, but I don't think the Japanese can escape a good part of the blame themselves.
Kiyoaki
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 13, 2002 10:34:41 GMT -5
I'm emotionally attached to anything Japanese (almost). I LOVE the JApanese people! They are MY people (even though I'm American). Some of my views may be contradictory to yours. I think that nothing (not even getting nuked) is worse than the cultural genocide of Japan in the late 19th through 20th centuries.
This cultural genocide might not me any governments fault, but that of greedy money worshipers who saw Japan as a market not a nation full of people.
I don't want to offend anyone with refrences to contraversial issues (like Hiroshima).
I'll post another message further explaining stuff. I know it's more than greedy merchants or a forceful nation pushing trade. I'll address that in my next post.
Again, I hope not to offend anyone wiht refrences to things like Hiroshima. I have strong feelings and opinions. I've been obsessed with history for years. I can't say that "guns blazing" and "treaty at gunpoint" aren't exaggerated.
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Post by AmyBeader on Mar 13, 2002 17:24:01 GMT -5
Hello. I just joined this forum (got here via viewing kimono for sale on eBay!) and I hope you do not mind if I respond. I am very much an American, my people are originally from Eastern Europe, but I have been in love with Asian arts and crafts for many years. I started collecting kimono and haori about 5 years ago; I have over 50 haori and about 6 or so kimono, including two uchikake (one is displayed on our living room wall). I saw a play last year called Pacific Overtures, and it was about the opening of Japan to the West. It was bittersweet, and very well done, and part of what I enjoyed was the costuming. I knew in general about what had happened when Westerners (Americans and Europeans) finally came into Japan and their influence. There was one part of the play (actually a musical) that featured funny but sad stereotypes of different Westerners, but its focus was how everyone wanted a piece of Japan for their own purposes and profits. Japan has become very Westernized, and since I so love the art and textiles, it is very sad to see how so much of this is going away. I have to confess that as a lady who carries more weight than she should and has lots of "curves" I shall probably never wear a kimono the way it should be worn (and I have been to two workshops on how to wear a kimono), but I can certainly continue to love and admire this art form. I do wear haori, as a jacket. I have one favorite cotton indigo kasuri haori that I wear around the house like wearing a western sweater (that is, for a little bit of warmth over my regular clothes.) I also subscribe to a kimono magazine through a local Japanese bookstore. I hope somehow that this clothing form and textile art does not entirely disappear. AmyBeader (my user name is based on my making beaded jewelry, including pieces that reflect my love of kimono.)
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Post by Kiyoaki on Mar 13, 2002 19:58:00 GMT -5
Hello Amy,
Welcome! This message board should suit you to a "T". We all love kimono in our own individual ways, and this is the place to share that interest.
I'm a fellow member, who wants to make you feel at home. Might I suggest you check out all the headings?
Although, it would be ideal if all the comments under any one heading were all related, it doesn't always work out that way. You may find interesting things sprinkled among topics that don't entirely relate to it.
I just want to add one word of explanation about the "tags" and "smileys" above before closing. The "smileys" will appear, wherever your cursor is set, when you actually select one.
The "tags" do not need to be used when you want a left registration. The system is already set for that option. If you want to embolded a word or sentence, select the "B" button and then type BETWEEN the two sets of brackets.
Hope you enjoy your time here.
Kiyoaki
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Post by chiiyo on Mar 14, 2002 0:56:55 GMT -5
I quote from Liza Dalby's Kimono
"both japanese and foreign social historians point to the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 as marking a cultural change as seismic as the actual geophysical event. Before the quake, the city of Tokyo and urban culture in general were predominantly colored by native modes. Afterwards, Westernization gained the ascendancy. The heart of Tokyo was rebuilt in steel and concrete rather than wood. Western building styles became standard. Many people had lost everything, including their clothes, and some restocked their wardrobes with many yokufu(westerned) items. But the primary reason the earthquake boosted Western clothing styles for women was not just the dresses were cheap and kimono pricey, as is often asserted, but that Western styles were percieved as more rational. Voices proclaiming yokufu's superiority to kimono hd been raised before the earthquake, but the calamity gave the arguments more force."
The point I am trying to illustrate here is that it wasn't the Perry incident that had changed the people's ideas on yokufu, it was circumstances and propoganda by the royalty themselves that has largely changed the mindset of japan. Also, with the new western infrastructure in, wearing kimono was hardly a viable option.
But i would also like to add that I believe kimono has a very special place in japan's heart, much more significant than if it was worn everyday. Wearing a kimono changes your mindset and your perspective on life, and japanese revere this feeling. To them, the kimono is truly their national costume, and because of the contrast to modern clothing, they have come to appreciate kimono a lot more. You don't see a lot of people collecting indian saris, do you? And yet, the indian sari is almost as identifiable as a national costume as the kimono is, but yet it does not command the same amount of respect. (The primary reason for this, is of course, the amount of work that goes into kimono, which increases the prices, and make kimono quite inaccessible to normal japanese)
So my point is that the current situation of japanese picking up kimono once in a while is fine to me, if it means that the kimono now commands it's due respect.
And I would like to add that I do love the japanese, and sometimes I myself do feel japanese, even though I am chinese and living in Singapore. Being of a different race, and not being even the slightest bit related to japanese doesn't make me any less "japanese" in that sense. I do admire your love for japan and I think it's wonderful for a country like japan to have such fervant admirers.
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 14, 2002 7:43:25 GMT -5
If propaganda got the Japanese into this slavery, than propaganda should get them out.
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Post by chiiyo on Mar 14, 2002 10:05:30 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't really call it slavery. Most japanese find it better to treat wakufu and yokufu as two different entities, you know, normal clothing=yokufu, special occasions=wakufu. I find that kimono tends to be better this way, treated as a special object, and therefore wouldn't go out of fashoin in that sense.
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 14, 2002 12:01:26 GMT -5
I like that "winged bringer of hope" thing. I can see where you're comming from, but I personally can't except things the way they are. kimonos not being worn isn't the only problem with post-war Japan. It's just one of the most obvious. I'm not anywhere near as optimistic as you are about Japan. The geisha districts are dissapearing. The economy is putting kimono makers out of business. The Japanese flag is controversial. North Korea sells weapons to Iran, but Japan can't have an aircraft carrier or take part in the current war (which they wanted to). Every time i read news about JApan, it's all bad and I have a bad day.
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 14, 2002 12:07:43 GMT -5
More about that "treaty at gunpoint" stuff. It was not a favorable situation for Japan. It might not have been at gunpoint, but it was a "If you know what's good for you" situation.
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Post by Kiyoaki on Mar 14, 2002 12:33:10 GMT -5
Akihito,
Do you believe Japan would have been better off if it continued its' isolationist policies? At what point in time would it have been okay for them to "voluntarily" join the rest of the world?
Yes, much has changed since that time. Change is inevitable. Some of it is good, some not so. It's impossible to turn the clock back, but the Japanese (better than any other country) have managed to preserve it's traditions going back more than 2,000 years. That is certainly a positive thing.
I can recognize that things that have been lost, but it was the Japanese who abandoned those traditions themselves (for whatever reason), and only they can deliver themselves from "slavery". It just doesn't work when you give people new freedom. They don't know what to do with it. If they had struggled and earned it themselves, they would have argued, debated, and figured it out along the way. "Delivering" them from themselves will only earn you scorn and ingratitude, because they won't be prepared to appreciated what you are doing.
I suppose none of what I've said will dissuade from your point of view (nor should it). My only intention was to point out the good things that still exist and flourish in Japan. It's still possible to experience traditional Japan, if you look long and hard enough.
Kiyoaki
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 14, 2002 13:46:28 GMT -5
You're right, continuing isolationism would be generally harmful. THe shogunate was unpopular, religious persecution was policy, the Samurai weren't happy (they were in debt).
Some of the change was good and overdue.
However, you're right, you won't convince me that what is is a good thing. I'll never accept it (enslaved Japan). Things will probably never improve. I'll be posting messages about how bad things are and the world's going to end because the Japanese hav betrayed themselves.
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Mar 15, 2002 8:21:38 GMT -5
Akihito
You mentioned the media and it's influence on modern culture. I agree that the media has tremendous power and usually uses it negatively. But, I also believe that the media can be useful. If Japanese movie and television stars, pop idols, and anyone in the public eye were to be seen in kimono constantly, don't you think they might just start a trend? If one were to bear in mind the tremendous influence that Anime has had on youth fashion worldwide - 3inch soles on oversized shoes etc. - what might the influence be if Anime producers were to regularly have their 'stars' appear in kimono? If the youth were to discover kimono, it would be a very good thing indeed. If they were to get used to wearing kimono often, then as adults, they would continue to do so and might even adopt it as their preferred mode of dress. Locally, our black population were completely westernized in terms of dress. A black man would never dream of attending a social function in anything less than a 3 piece suit. Since Nelson Mandela was regularly seen in public wearing his brightly coloured Madiba Shirts, black males have started wearing African inspired clothing and now see this as equal, if not superior to western dress. All this because of one public figure and the power of the media.
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 15, 2002 9:06:54 GMT -5
Dear Alan,
You're 100% correct! I do believe I may have said something to the same effect as what you said. The same tool which was used to destroy and enslave, can be used to restore and emancipate.
We have to come up with some way to get influence in the media. I know that I want to manipulate the media, but I don't know exactly how I should do it.
We have to fight! Who's with me?!
"Come my friends, tis time to seek a newer world."
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Post by Kiyoaki on Mar 15, 2002 11:56:25 GMT -5
Alan & Akihito,
That's exactly how the kimono styles have always been set. The darlings of the public were always copied in their dress styles. Today it's the movie and music stars. Before it used to be the geisha, the sumo wrestler, the kabuki actor. Actually the second group still does exert influence on kimono modes, but they have been over shadowed by the more modern media stars.
Akihito, that's the best place to focus your campaign for reviving the kimono. I also think that a wider range of prices is very possible for kimono, when there is sufficent demand for it. Of course the Japanese also need to give up some of their prejudices about status and preference for the expensive as justifications for buying something (which is a universal prejudice). I think it's very natural to want a custom designed garment, but until it's also socially okay to wear modest stripes and plaids as for everyday wear, and cotton is accepted in more formal situations, you won't see more people wearing them.
One further item, __ as long as the traditional system that created this art form continues to operate in the same way, the kimono will remain an elitist pursuit. How to change that process or add an alternative to custom work remains to be puzzled out. Perhaps home dying and decoration needs to be encourage as a way to get around the establishment.
Kiyoaki
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Mar 15, 2002 12:45:46 GMT -5
I have 4 things to say?
1: How do I get a hand in the media?
2: I don't wand to displace or destroy the current kimono industry, but add an arm to it. This will be a far reeching arm that will make kimonos more readily available to the general population. I intend to make cotton and silk kimonos available to anyone who's willing to spend the equivilant to the price of a name brand pair of jeans at the mall. I think that can be done and that it's not unreasonable.
3: I wouldn't make synthetic
4: What about Japanese archetecture? Who REALLY wants to live in a cement block in a crowded city? Especially when they could live in a beautiful house on beautiful, green land.
Oh well, maybee I can't do this all at once. I do want to live to see the restoration that I long for.
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Hoshi
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Post by Hoshi on Mar 30, 2002 23:24:20 GMT -5
So, basically Akihito needs to become a famous American/English pop-star and wear kimonos to every concert.
Then with the money he makes from that, he can produce his own line of kimonos to favor modern people, and then restore early or vintage kimonos for traditional people ;D
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Post by Kou Hiko on Apr 4, 2002 15:18:30 GMT -5
:DIt's funny that you say that, Hoshi-chan. I FREQUENTLY have dreams/day-dreams when listening to my music. I dream that I'm the guitarist in a GLAY-like band in Japan and in every concert and every music video (and in normal life) I wear nothing but kimono (with my sleeves tied back so I can play with out my sleeves getting eaten up in the guitar strings). It's one of my favorite dreams/day-dreams.
I, apperently, have started a fashion trend at the mall a year back. I came up with my own hair-do and wore it to the mall. A week later I went to Hot Topic (a store at the mall) and all the female employees (and one male) were wearing my hair-do. If you could wear kimono at major-traffic areas, I believe you can create the same effect, but at a much smaller scale.
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