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Post by Invisoclam on Jun 1, 2002 17:54:11 GMT -5
Hello Everyone, I am new to Kimono Appreciation (the best term to desribe where I'm at) Before starting a new thread I tried to find the answers to my questions, which are... Exactly what is a mens kimono, I am not clear on the sleeve thing, can they be unisex... excepting of course for the obvious pattern and obvious women's styled kimonos. I was recently given as a gift, a kimono, with "butterfly sleeves" it has a black background with flying cranes. The site where it was bought from, does not say what gender it is for that particular item. I have emailed them and am awaiting their response. Any light on the subject will be much appreciated! Ja ne, Invisoclam
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jun 1, 2002 23:39:08 GMT -5
Dear "I",
Although the 'cut' is very similar, there are two distinguishing features of men's versus women's kimono. Except for archaic or religous garments, men's sleeves reach only a few inches lower then where they join the body. In addition, the corners of the sleeves that lie next to the torso are seamed shut so the whole sleeve forms a pouch.
By contrast, the sleeves for women's garments can hang anywhere from a few inches to several feet long. In all cases, the inside edge is always left open so the sleeves of the under kimono show through.
The one you describe is probably a woman's garment. Depending on the length of the sleeves, it could be for a bride or a married woman. The black background color is highly unlikely for a young girl or woman. If the sleeves are several feet in length, then it was made to be worn as a wedding kimono. If only about a foot and a half in length, then it probably would have been worn by a married woman on formal occasions (like a wedding). The crane motif is the biggest indicator here of a wedding connection.
Sorry for the disappointing news. Unless you are getting married sometime soon and your fiance' is willing to wear it, or your present wife is going to a wedding, you probably shouldn't wear it in public. Otherwise, keep it for decoration.
Men's kimono are very sedate, and with almost no decoration (except for the 'juban' or underkimono, which lack the extra panels that cross over in the front]. Women's kimono, especially those worn by matrons, can pass for a man's, but the sleeve details is the telling difference.
Kiyoaki
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Post by Invisoclam on Jun 2, 2002 9:22:59 GMT -5
Kiyoaki, Thank you very much for your detailed and very clear explanation! After placing this post on the board here, I scoured the internet, and kind of figured it all out. However your explanation, was the best! My wife will wear the cranes around the house, I'll find a more suitable one for me. Thank you again! Invisoclam
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jul 8, 2002 14:18:34 GMT -5
Zaphod,
To further address your question: When you're limited to only a picture, other indications come into play that differentiate men's from women's kimono (especially from the Meiji Period forward).
Most often, pattern or design motifs will immediately distinguish one from the other, but this is not an absolute rule. As to what makes up those elements, that question would take many books to exhaust. However, one major rule-of-thumb can be applied: the simpler and plainer the more likely it's a man's garment.
Although the material a matron might select for her kimono can resemble something a man would wear, there is often some telltale feature that marks it as more appropriate for a female. That quality can't be quantified in simple terms since the possibilities are so great.
When it comes to juban, the rules relax a bit. Dye techniques like katazome (stencil printing) and shibori are commonly seen. However, the colors that are 'suitable' for a man are still the earth tones and blues. A leaf green is about as bright as it ever gets. The overall intent is to keep everything as subdued and sober as possible. [How depressing!]
I hope these added remarks help.
Kiyoaki
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Post by Kiyoaki on Jul 12, 2002 16:45:57 GMT -5
Zaphod,
That's why I'm advocating that men break out of that mold. Of course it's kinda hard, when the only things availalbe are sober and dark garments.
What can we do?
My tentative answer to that question is: Wear the older styles instead.
What would you guys think of wearing a 'kamishimo' or some court-style jackets instead?
I've got a red gauze priest's robe in my collection, which could make a big impression. The sleeves are about a yard square and there is a 3/4 length pleated bottom that is sewn to it. It has ties at the waist so there's no obi. Obviously not everyone is willing to wear such a garment, in order to make a statement, but when there isn't much in the middle, the choice becomes one of extremes.
Perhaps another possibility might be to wear your juban on the outside, instead of underneath. As long as you wear a full kimono under it (so the front doesn't show a gap), the collar of the juban need only be held together at the obi. Of course, I'd wear a hakama and haori with that kind of combination to make the statement that you did everything intentionally. Yes some may snicker at the reversing of juban and kimono, but when the kosode first emerged from under the juni-hitoe combination, people probably said the same thing. Perhaps if we brazen it through, this could make the revival of men's style in kimono possible.
Kiyoaki
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akihito89
Full Member
Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Jul 25, 2002 16:10:30 GMT -5
Sewing the backs of womens' kimono sleeves won't do the whole thing. The womens' sleeves R 2 incher shorter so more wrist shows on a man. If yoo weatr a man's kimono under a woman's kimono, U'll have the man's sleeves sticking out a little bit. If you want to see a pic of this to further demonstrate this go to www.desperatelybored2k2.freeservers.com. There's a pic of me in a black man's yukata under a shiromuku. It was a good Idea, but there's always gonna be hoops to jump thru. Yoo could try making a new sleeve for a woman's kimono. That's how I plan to turn an ordinary bride's shiromuku into an extremely elaborate man's kimono. For more on that read "I got bored and..."
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akihito89
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Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
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Post by akihito89 on Jul 27, 2002 21:18:38 GMT -5
ZaphodB42,
Do you ever plan to "convert" a furisode or something else with BIG sleeves? If you are, I'd leave the backs of the sleeves open coz it'd look funny closed on a kimono like that. That was just aomething I thought to ask.
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akihito89
Full Member
Be Free! Wear Kimonos!
Posts: 107
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Post by akihito89 on Jul 28, 2002 22:07:12 GMT -5
I understand, but i still think it'd be kool to do! The reason i want to convert a uchikake (or shiromuku) is coz i love those BIG sleeves!
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